Today in class we learned about the Milgram Study at Yale, and watched the video of the famous Stanford Prison Experiment conducted by Dr.Philip Zimbardo.
How do you interpret the results from both of these studies? What can we learn from both of these studies regarding human nature? What do the results of the studies say about obedience and authority? What steps can society take to prevent torture and prison abuse?
Moreover, today in the Los Angeles Times' article "Officials confirm suicide attempt at Guantanamo" Carol Williams wrote how one detainee of Guantanamo "was transferred here last year from a secret CIA prison abroad".
Taking into account what you learned from the Stanford Prison Experiment, how do you feel about the United States having secret prisons abroad?
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Both studies demonstrate the corruption of society. Humanity is innately wicked. Our laws and needs to live around each other within constructed societies help to keep the evil within; that is until circumstances are changed. Some people are more vulnerable and can easily be changed; while others need a lot more than a simple stare to become the beast waiting to be let out. In other words, I believe that all human beings have a minor case of multiple personality disorder. This explains the guilt we feel when we let something get the best of us, we don’t know what took over.
Obedience: the act of submission.
In a sense we are all obedient. We all have higher authorities who control our evryday lives. We may not realize it because we don't think about it; we feel as though we are doing as we please. but why do we wait for the light to turn green in order to go even when there is no traffic to endanger us, or cameras to take the picture? We, as a society have been trained to do certain things in specific ways. As liberal as we like to think ourselves, we must realize no one is free to do as they please. No matter where or who you are there is always a higher more powerful force, known as authority. These authorities are set to help prevent "unnatural acts".. however, they themselves are capable of doing what they supposedly stand against. For example, and in fact the best, Dr. Zimbardo's Prison Experiment; the prison guards had no trouble stepping into the shoes of their roles. All the conductors had to do was give them a small lecture.. it was an experiment and they truly had no place to treat their peers the way they did. I believe it was "prisoner 462" whom confronted one of the guards about the unneccesary maltreatment given by him. He also made an extremely strong point that the actions potrayed by this guard should be seen as a threat. What if the cameras hadnt been there, or if it wasnt an experiment how would he have acted? The fact that this was an experiment and these were his peers definitely placed some restrictions on his conscious. One can only imagine what he would do to real government prisoners.
I am sickened by the fact that our government has these secret prisons that most Americans have no clue about. Furthermore, the fact that those who do know let it be. When they are hiding prisons that are supposedly created to protect us it make you wonder what they aren’t telling us about. What about the projects set which are not for our protection? Why would a prison be secreted? How much torture is going on?
I am also appalled by the fact that the prisoners from Zimbardo’s study would not choose to give up their blankets for one night to let their peer, who had done nothing wrong to deserve this torment, out of the hole. This was an experiment, they knew they would only be there for a maximum of two weeks and only so much could be done to harm them. They had the right to protest, yet they chose to let things flow and did not help their peer out. It truly opens my eyes as to what people truly are.
You bring up many interesting issues, Stacy. I also was shocked and appalled by the fact that the students chose not to give up their blanket but instead to leave a fellow student locked up in the solitary confinement cell which was actually a very small closet. This points to the issue of conformity, and how most of the prisoners in the study chose to conform rather than resist the abusive behavior of the guards. Why do you think the prisoners would choose to conform in this simulated prison situation? How did the guards succeed in getting the prisoners to conform? In this case, is conformity just as dysfunctional as the sadism that was displayed? How do you think you yourself would act if you were placed in the role as prisoner or guard?
While I was watching the video, I thought of the holocaust. How one group of people had total control and the other just took the punishment. Some did rebel, but were ultimately punished and rejected.
Cheyanne, I am really glad you brought that up. I am guessing that you are referring to the Nazi Holocaust of 6 million Jews in Nazi Germany. I also thought of this when I learned of these studies. Many have questioned how the Holocaust was able to occur, and why did the German people not resist the violence of Adolf Hitler? Why did the majority of the German people follow the violent orders of Hitler and not protest or express dissent? Can the Milgram Studies and the Stanford Prison Experiment help us to understand how the systematic extermination of 6 million people was allowed to happen?
As long as torture is tolerated for anybody, anywhere, none of us is safe. We can't justify it even against an enemy.. Any authority can define any class of people as an enemy at any time. The fear of being included in the outclass makes us all conform to authority. The German population was no worse than any of us .. it has always been easier to conform than to take a stand against our own government's brutality.
Today suspected terrorists go to secret prisons to be tortured .. tomorrow it could be any of us.
I agree with Stagal88, I think our society is very corrupt and we need to do something about. I think that they should make more laws to stop prison abuse. I really don't think its fair for the people in prison, it's bad enough that they are locked in a cell for all those years, can barely ever see there family, and they are treated like that. It realy isn't fair becuase no one deserves to be treated that way not even people who are in prison. I think that the guards are very cruel becuase just becuase they have the power to do anything, they think it gives them the right to put them in holes for days and take away their beds, but they must have forgot that those people really didn't do anything, they just volunteered to becuase they didn't know what they were in for. I think if I was a prisoner in that jail I would also act crazy just to get out or I would go on a hunger strike. They also were very wrong to make an experiment like that becuase it's very dangerous, they should have the goverments permission before they do something that stupid.
I feel bad for these prisoners. Even some of them did bad things the punishment should not be that severe. No punishment should ever encourage people to commit suicide. People should never have to commit suicide to escape their problems. I have heard about Guantanamo Bay for a few years now. I heard they do unimaginable things that you would never want to hear about. I think everyone involved in the torture those prisoners deserve to be punished.
In Buddahism, Buddah said that if one is living,then one is suffering. I guess if someone really was suffering, the suicide could end all of his/her problem, but the legacy left will definitly hurt loved ones.
The Bush administration has made the argument that in post 9-11 America, they need to be able to use "enhanced interrogation" methods in order to obtain information and prevent another terrorist attack. How do you respond to this argument? Do you agree or disagree?
these studies show that humans are innately capable of things they never thought they could ever do whether they are good or bad deeds. like in the stanford prison, the guards acted treated the prisoners cruelly and would often time do things that would dehumanize them. a few months after the experiment ended those men were called back and they were shocked with the way they acted
I interpret these results as obvious and near unnessasary. We can learn what we have already learned. This is that people look for something to believe in. Either a person, religion, assorted objects, etc. And at first people refuse change, but eventually fall victim to it. THis experiment and history shows that people want to look up to a single or a few person(s) rather than them standing up dictating orders when given the option. But in the end those who were blessed with power (either accidently or purposely) enjoy it much more than the commanded although they will be corrupted.
haha... ummm how to stop torture in prisons... how about we have a huge strike? Just bring in a charismatic character with authority and people will be lead into having a massive strike... according to the experiment this should work...
Personally I think that the secret prisons are just plain bad. Not only is a it a prison, its secret. Now what why would it be secret? Problably bad stuff is going down there. Thats why its is secret.
I think that Guantanamo bay has no positive aspects at all. First of all they randomly throw people in. Also it is very biased and anyone can end up there. Even US citizens have been punished by the government from false evidence. In fact this new event makes us less safe. Your neighbor can report you as a threat and you would have a rough life soon after. Yet they claim to do this for safety. What a scam! I think this prison has a purpose that only the government knows. Something is definitely not right. In my History class I learned that Bush has done many things that are against the constitution. They sure have done a good job manipulating the public. We often follow the authority like they are always right. Now Bush is trying to police other countries like Iraq. It's amazing how powerful our government is, although they have used it in the wrong way.
Viewing the disastrous and unimaginable acts the prison guards/students did among Dr. Zimbardo's Prison Experiment concludes to how many people go along whith such abusive acts, rather than trying to stop it.I beleive that the actions each individual made was their source of mental survival. As each indivudual understood this was all an experiment, they still chose to make cruel, wicked acts. And as for the prisoners who chose to obey, they did not work together to fight for their equality or to help their fellow prison mate who was constantly sent to the 'hole'. The majority of the students 'went with flow' where each one followed and obeyed what they were asked to do, for it was also beneficial to the prisoners because they would then not be treated as cruel if they were to obey. This then contributes to the students actions being benificial to them. For example, when the prisoners obeyed, they were able to 'survive' or be treated with less cruelty. I conclude that the prisoners who obeyed felt that that was their only way to survive throughout the experiment especially when believing that they could not leave the prison, the majorty of them had lost hope. After being mistreated and not having anyone on your side to do something about justice, what would you do? Being in such a vulnerable stage, a majority of pepole go through magor depression and shock.
Excellent thoughts! Regarding Guantanamo Bay prison, I think one of the most shameful and disturbing points is that the prisoners there have still not been charged with a crime. If the U.S. government has enough evidence against these prisoners, then they should charge them with a crime and allow them a fair trial. If they do not have enough evidence to charge them with a crime, then the detainees should be set free. It is extremely undemocratic to incarcerate people without charging them. Moreover, the detainees at Guantanamo have been denied their habeus corpus right which is their right to a lawyer. They have been denied their right to question their imprisonment before a jury and judge. I am strongly opposed to this, as our justice system is not perfect and sometimes mistakes are made and innocent people are sent to jail. This is why it is imperative that all people have the right to question their incarceration, so if a mistake was made it can be corrected.
Regarding secret prisons abroad, I believe we must express our dissent and demand the end of these secret prisons. All prisons must be transparent so that we can help prevent prison abuse and torture. Moreover, the recent shocking revelation that the CIA destroyed tapes containing "enhanced interrogations" makes me angry, and I hope Congress will get to the bottom of that.
It is ironic that one of the rationalizations for invading and occupying Iraq (once no weapons of mass destruction were found) was that Saddam Hussein allowed torture and needed to be removed, yet the Bush administration allows torture as well.
This government is changing pretty fast. We are suposed to have three balanced branches but today the executive branch is gaining power while the others are losing power. If this continues, then the government will overpower the people. This kind of relates to the Prison Experiments because the other branches aren't stopping the government from doing all these bad things. Some ofour right have been taken away recently. Today you cant say whatever you want. The FBI can tap your phoneline so you have to becareful what you say. Too many people aren't doing anything about this just like some of the guards and prisoners in the experiment. Also our privacy has been violated so much recently. Many people sell other peoples information to others.
It is true that the Bush administration illegally wire tapped suspects' phones without the proper warrants. There was a law in place stating that the government could obtain the warrant up to 72 hours after the wire tapping was conducted which should have been more than adequate. However, under Bush the NSA broke the law by spying on Americans without the proper warrants. I agree with many who have made the argument that this is one justification for beginning impeachment proceedings immediately. Bush and Cheney are not above the law. By the way, Adam, your history class sounds very interesting.
I think Zimbardos prison experiment would be very illegal today, but back then i geuss it was aloud. I thought that this experiment was a bad way of studying how people react with this kind of cruel behavior, it even drove one of the prisoners into a state that he was going crazy. Like i said before, you can do this experiment in a different way without driving people to that kind of state.
The Milgram study and the Stanford Prison Experiment both reached the conclusion through highly controversial methods that when faced with authority figures like scientists or security guards, people will typically unconditionally comply or conform. These studies reveal that human nature is to follow authority, often unwaveringly, without posing moral or ethical questions to the authority figures. The studies also say that obedience will soon ensue when authority is involved.
To prevent torture and prison abuse the most sensible and effective step to take would be putting guards through training courses and classes that entail how to treat prisoners humanely and leave them with dignity. The point of prisons is not to reinforce harmful behavior with poor treatment, but to teach the prisoners righteousness through fair treatment. The best way to learn something is through example; this class has deemed this to be true. If the guards set an example of fairness and morality, the prisoners will soon adhere to this. This type of conformity would be beneficial in that it is not degrading or dehumanizing. It can only help to further prisoner rehabilitation.
This comes to conclude that our society will continue on their lives for better or worse.Any act made from the administration will always have some type of problem, for society does not view things the same. I do agree though, among the issue of preventing such violent acts in prison, it should all be transparant. How would we know what is truly going on inside the prison? Sad to say we won't know. And many innocent lives are being mistaken as cruel people, who have been sacrificing their lives to be living in a small cell with a lack of privelages.
Like many controversial United States foreign policy decisions, prisons abroad like Guantanamo Bay have both good and malevolent implications. Many people say that people seized accused of being terrorists are held in these prisons are held without many rights (especially those of Habeas Corpus). It is also said that innocent people have been detained at these foreign prisons on the basis of provisions like the Patriot Act, which many say violates Constitutional rights. Proponents of these prisons say that if someone is suspected of being a terrorist, they should be questioned, and if it seems as though they could be a threat to National security, they should be detained at Guantanamo. This is the basic “for the greater good argument.” What this means is that a few human and constitutional rights can afford to be bent if it prevents potential or definite terrorists from carrying out attacks on America. The greater good argument has also been used to justify genocides and fruitless wars. In all, the prisons abroad need to be more regulated and monitored to ensure people maintain their rights. Terrorists are a tremendous threat, but stripping people of rights can be equated to the heinous acts that terrorists commit.
Whatching those studies showed alot about human behavior that people dont see very often. When the Guards were in power some abused it. They took advantage of the prisoners be cause they could not because they were forced to. Whats scary is that their are people like that now out there in the world.
On the Prisoners side it showed alot how we as a people conform to a social norm. We act a certaint way because of the people living around us. Everyone knows a time in their life when they did something because everyone else was and they didnt want to seem different from the group. This is what these studies reveal
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